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CulminatingJoe

Cape Buffalo rounds?

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To the best of my knowledge, no one on this board has hunted in Africa for the big boys.

One day I'd like to go after wildebeest and Cape Buffalo. I mentioned this to my Dad tonight and he asked what I would take to do such a hunt. I was a bit stumped.

My 700P is in 7.62 NATO and therefore has not enough oomph and weighs wayyyy too much to lump around all day without help.

"Gunbearer!"

"Yes, bwana?"

"My rifle if you please" :D:

So my mind is running to what would be required for these two types of game. I wouldn't want to be undergunned...so off the top of my head thought about a sporterweight rifle in .338 Winchester or one of the biggish European 9s like the 9.3 x 62 or 9.3 x 64.

Bear in mind I wouldn't want a behemouth 460 or 570 type rifle that will knock me flat on my arse, just a rifle that's enough to do it, but no more.

Care to speculate what you'd carry?

Edited by CulminatingJoe

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I agree. 4 bore is the obvious choice.

But certainly nothing smaller than this:

700hubelexpressin5.jpg

700HE

Edited by macshooter

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:D: Yanks.

Should have known it would degenerate in to talk of rifles that fire projectiles more suited to the pursuit of brontosaurus.

Macshooter, too much is barely enough huh mate? :okay:

Come on, what will do the job but not put me in the hospital?

Edited by CulminatingJoe

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375 H&H Magnum has a proven record in Africa, and quite a bit of reach too.

458 Win Mag or 458 Lott (if you can tolerate the extra recoil) would probably the first thing to come to mind if I were really serious about it.

A guy like you could probably make very good use of a 300 mag out there.

Edited by macshooter

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I agree. 4 bore is the obvious choice.

But certainly nothing smaller than this:

700hubelexpressin5.jpg

700HE

That round takes on a different meaning when you actually hold it in your hand. I see you got one two.

Don't forget the various .416's out there.

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Joe, I wouldn't hesitate to go for a Marlin guide gun in 45-70 if I was going on the hunt for large game. It's lighter, shorter, holds more rounds, and chambers new rounds more quickly in a dangerous situation than it's bolt-action counterparts.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=65609793

Loaded with such ammunition as made by http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp, it would be well-suited to taking down the biggest game out there. A recent issue of American Rifleman had a story where on of their authors went to Africa with both this rifle and garrett ammo...and took down all the biggest baddest game out there including a large elephant.

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{Mac makes bad joke - kills thread - while forum members stare :plain: at the screen and shake their heads - crickets chripping...}

:whistle:

I didn't actually get it out and measure it folks. [bad mental image] Experience has given me a pretty good feel for these things...

[/discussion of Mac's protuberant appendages]

:dunce:

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Macshooter.... you're too funny dude...

.45-70 would be a good one as loaded by Garrett. I have a fealing that any of the larger .300 & .338/.358 rounds would also be good. as for lugging it around all day, then shooting, the .45-70 would probably get my vote.

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<Ignoring any talk of Mac's thingy>

So it looks like no one here is recommending <.375 except maybe BDA. Interesting.

Water Buffalo (same size as Cape, but less aggressive) are hunted here with .338 rifles successfully, so that was why I floated that calibre. With the right load, the .338 Win has 4300 ft/lbs +/- and that I would have thought would be great to do the job, but not injure the shooter either.

Perhaps it's genuinely a cultural thing...you fellas suggesting larger calibres than perhaps I would.

Edited by CulminatingJoe

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45-70 can be loaded pretty hot, if you have a gun that will withstand it. 416 is an African classic as Hickbob pointed out.

.308/ 30-06 would probably do the job with some skill (head/neck shot), but I don't think I would try it on an elephant, or anything with a large head.

I had to put a cow down once with a 303 Brit. It took two or three head shots point blank (less than 10ft) to put the poor thing out of it's misery (stopped breathing). Not a pretty sight at all. Cow skulls are plenty thick. I thought a few .22s in the head would do it, but it didn't. I had to run up and get my enfield while the poor thing was suffering. I will never make that mistake again.

50BMG would be more than sufficient provided you plant yourself somewhere and wait for them to come to you (within a mile or so...)

Edited by macshooter

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Hey, Joe! What is a veghead going to do with all the meat!?

Joe, I wouldn't hesitate to go for a Marlin guide gun in 45-70 if I was going on the hunt for large game. It's lighter, shorter, holds more rounds, and chambers new rounds more quickly in a dangerous situation than it's bolt-action counterparts.

I've fired a 45-70, and the recoil is surprisingly managable out of a light rifle. It has my vote.

Jared

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Hey, Joe! What is a veghead going to do with all the meat!?

A veg head? Hmph. Does that make you a meat head? :D:

It's my understanding that the local villagers are frequently offered the meat, assuming it's an edible game animal and not the "tastes like boot leather" variety.

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A veg head? Hmph. Does that make you a meat head? :D:

Damn. I walked right into that one!

It's my understanding that the local villagers are frequently offered the meat, assuming it's an edible game animal and not the "tastes like boot leather" variety.

You're breeding them to be welfare kids!!!

Jared

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it's ok. i'll get mufasa to carry it. i'm pretty much used to carrying crap weighing a lot more than that for more than a day.

better yet, i'll just bring an almost empty stomach for the feasting afterwards and my .357 as backup. hmmm. saiga slug loads..............

come to think of it, i would be out hunting "game" of a different sort than sweat it out in the wilderness. my fave hunting grounds would be the bars......... mmmm! black chocolate! :dvil:

honestly, you guys are lucky to have big game animals to stalk. all i have are water buffalos, monkeys and all that little crap. if them cape buffalos are tougher than out local water buffalos i'd rather be in the bars. one charged right at me and it took all the better of three 10rd mags of .45acp to even slow down the sucker.

Edited by 45operator

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Yeah, I have heard of them and they are warp speed rounds. (http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/8_59_338_lazzeroni_titan.html) But in my expereince they're not common. I've never actually seen a rifle chambered in one.

I could also go for the .338 Lapua (http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/338_lapua_mag.html) which has more ME than the Winchester, but again, the load development has not been with large game in mind....more your intermediate anti-material type purposes forseen for that and I cannot remember seeing one that wasn't a sniper rifle in weight and design.

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I don't know anyone who has tried the Lazzaroni's out. I would be scared that they would have a throat errosion problem. Those are some blistering speeds they claim to have. i am not doubting them....just seems to me like they would wear fast as well as shoot fast.

Mac.....you ain't right man. :cr8z:

I showed that round to my dad.

He told me I better not leave it layin around the house or someone might think it was a toy for my wife when she missed me. :nono2:

Edited by hickbob

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"In his career he's amassed some impressive numbers. He's guided clients to 160 Cape buffalo, a dozen lions, 40 leopards and a like number of elephants, and 50 of the new member of the Big Five: the hippo."

"The .375 H&H is adequate, as you've seen [my wife and I had killed a buffalo apiece at that point, both animals falling to the Holland & Holland]. On the other end, you can use a .700 Nitro--but if you hit him in the guts, it won't matter. Big calibers don't overcome poor shooting."

"Actually, I like to see clients use something slightly bigger than the .375. The .450 Dakota has really impressed me a lot. The .416s are good, but once people move up to things like the .458 Lott, then I begin to see a lot of flinching."

That was all out of a Guns and Ammo article about a guy named Peter Barnard.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/danger_111406/

I think .375 H&H is considered a little small for Cape Buffalo. I'm friends with Ross Perrot's grandson and he goes to Africa for safaris pretty often. He uses a .416 Rigby. The .416 gets great penetration while some of other calibers such as the .458 Win mag are known to fall a little short. If you do go with a .416, get the Rigby and not the Remington. The Remington can have wierd pressure problems and is loaded light alot of the time. Personally I like my .45-70, but I'm told some countries have laws about what calibers are legal for use on big game. I'm not sure the .45-70 is allowed everywhere.

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I've fired a .416 and it kicked like a mule...http://www.hk94.com/hk/index.php?showtopic=19099&hl=.416+rigby...I'd be reluctant to take one, but it is a crackerjack performer on big/dangerous game I grant you.

One of these in .338 Win looks good to me - http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAP...41&return=Y

Maybe with a full pressure load and a projectile weight of around 250 grains....perhaps a Partition or Barnes X Solid projectile...I've heard they do the business on water buffalo here nicely.

Edited by CulminatingJoe

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I've got a Remington 700 in .35 Whelen. It's pretty similar to the .338, falls a little bit behind it though. With the 250-grain rounds, it'll really back up on you. If you're considering the .45-70, it'll take anything a .338 will and more. It also has much gentler recoil in my experience. The .35 is more like a sharp punch while the .45-70 is alot more like a shotgun, it's more of a hard shove or push. This is also with hotter modern loads.

If I could only have one rifle, it would be my Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun. I like it so much I think the next rifle I'll get will be the Marlin .45-70 Cowboy model.

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