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emr454

New To AR15's

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I was just looking at the M&A Parts website and I see they have uppers and complete uppers. I'm guessing the upper(not the complete uppers) don't come with the charging handle and bolt carrier(?) Which would be better to buy? Or should I buy one of their kits that comes with everything but the stripped lower, and then buy a stripped lower? I think the kit and lower combo would be cheaper and/or easier. Any input guys? Thanks.

Eric

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I was just looking at the M&A Parts website and I see they have uppers and complete uppers. I'm guessing the upper(not the complete uppers) don't come with the charging handle and bolt carrier(?) Which would be better to buy? Or should I buy one of their kits that comes with everything but the stripped lower, and then buy a stripped lower? I think the kit and lower combo would be cheaper and/or easier. Any input guys? Thanks.

Eric

113701[/snapback]

Buy the kit...then the receiver seperate...I garantee this will save you money.

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Now I'm looking at the model 1 sales site and I have more questions.

-5.56 NATO or .223 Rem.?

I saw somewhere someone posted a message that said the .223 rounds could be used in a rifle chambered in 5.56 but not the other way around...or something like that since the 5.56 rounds create more pressure in the chamber when fired I guess. Anybody know any more about this?

-LE stock and grip

Is the LE stock shorter than a collapsible stock or what? Which one would be better. I would rather have a collapsible stock just so I can adjust it lenghtwise but I want to know what makes the LE stock different.

-A1 or A2 flashider?

What's the difference?

Thanks for any input guys

Eric

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Now I'm looking at the model 1 sales site and I have more questions.

-5.56 NATO or .223 Rem.?

    I saw somewhere someone posted a message that said the .223 rounds could be used in a rifle chambered in 5.56 but not the other way around...or something like that since the 5.56 rounds create more pressure in the chamber when fired I guess. Anybody know any more about this?

-LE stock and grip

    Is the LE stock shorter than a collapsible stock or what? Which one would be better. I would rather have a collapsible stock just so I can adjust it lenghtwise but I want to know what makes the LE stock different.

-A1 or A2 flashider?

    What's the difference?

Thanks for any input guys

Eric

113708[/snapback]

Get the 5.56

Coll stock

A2 suppressor

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Now I'm looking at the model 1 sales site and I have more questions.

-5.56 NATO or .223 Rem.?

    I saw somewhere someone posted a message that said the .223 rounds could be used in a rifle chambered in 5.56 but not the other way around...or something like that since the 5.56 rounds create more pressure in the chamber when fired I guess. Anybody know any more about this?

-LE stock and grip

    Is the LE stock shorter than a collapsible stock or what? Which one would be better. I would rather have a collapsible stock just so I can adjust it lenghtwise but I want to know what makes the LE stock different.

-A1 or A2 flashider?

    What's the difference?

Thanks for any input guys

Eric

113708[/snapback]

What FMJ said...

5.56 will fire both 5.56 and .223 but .223 wont fire 5.56 (5.56 chamber is a little bigger because the bullet is a little longer).

The LE Stock is non collapsable and really just looks cool...don't buy into all that accessory crap. Get the rifle, and if you don't like a piece like the grip, then buy a different one.

A1 is the older version flash hider...A2 is a newer version. The A2 I think is better because it takes up more recoil, saves your night vision better, and hides the flash more.

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Thanks Riot. I figured it would be cheaper that way. If I just buy the basic rifle kits without any upgrades and then buy a stripped lower from FAC, then it will be about $515 minus the shipping and transfer fee for the receiver.

BUT...

FAC also has what they call the AR15 carbine plinker for only $499. It's made by Olympic Arms and comes with a hard case and a lifetime warranty. This sound like it would be a lot cheaper to me but does anyone know if the Olympic Arms brand is good or junk? If theyre good then I think I will just go with this one instead. Thanks in advance.

Eric

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FAC also has what they call the AR15 carbine plinker for only $499. It's made by Olympic Arms and comes with a hard case and a lifetime warranty. This sound like it would be a lot cheaper to me but does anyone know if the Olympic Arms brand is good or junk? If theyre good then I think I will just go with this one instead. Thanks in advance.

113717[/snapback]

If it's a plinker then that might not be the rifle with the twist ratio you're looking for. If you're looking for a Carbine for self defense, fun, AND plinking I would suggest a 1 in 9 twist ratio with a 16in barrel...I bet that "plinker" will either have a 1 to 12 twist or a 1 in 14 and/or with a 24" heavy barrel

Or reverse it's for CQB only and it might have a 1 in 7 twist with a 14" barrel. If that's the case, you wont drop ANYTHING over 200 meters garanteed.

Look up the specs.

Edited by Riot

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Actually, it has a 16 inch barrel with a 1 in 9 twist so that sounds pretty good but fmj was right, it has a caast lower receiver. I'm kinda on a budget so that sounds like what I want for now. I could always upgrade later if need be. And as far as pre ban features, I really don't need any of them but it would be nice to have them.

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Actually, it has a 16 inch barrel with a 1 in 9 twist so that sounds pretty good but fmj was right, it has a caast lower receiver. I'm kinda on a budget so that sounds like what I want for now. I could always upgrade later if need be. And as far as pre ban features, I really don't need any of them but it would be nice to have them.

113758[/snapback]

If you do that...you'll be wasting money...

I wish I had bought the 8 possition buttstock and picatinny rail system in a kit rather than upgrading later.

Just my 2¢

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The kit may cost about 20-50 dollars more but you get alot more for your money and you get to learn your rifle. Its what I would do.

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Yea I think I will go with the kit because I just noticed it's chambered in .223 and not 5.56 NATO. I will go with the kit now that I saw that. Thanks alot guys.

Eric

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Ok, flat top vs. carry handle.  What is the deal?  What is the difference, which is better.  Let me know.  I'm getting all kinds of anxious to build one of these now!

Also, AR's in .308.  Does this happen?  Who makes an upper for this?  Is the receiver specific to the caliber that you are firing?

Jared

113489[/snapback]

I built a flat top and bought a detachable carry handle from CDNN for $49.99. I think this is the way to go. You have iron sights on the handle and you can have a Leatherwood drop scope attachment on it for a red dot or some other scope and you can take the handle off and have a regular hunting scope that attatches to the weaver rail. It's really the best of both worlds.

AR in .308, yes they have them. The AR10 I think is what Armalite calls theirs. This would have a different lower because the mag well will be bigger. It would also most likely have a different upper as the recoil will have to travel farther to discharge the spent round. I want one myself. The prices I've seen have been over $1100 though. A bit pricey when I can get a nice HK91 knock off for about $650.

If I remember right, the new 6.8 SPC upper will work with a 5.56 lower. You could get a 6.8 upper and switch between them I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Chris

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I have been thinking about building one in 7.62x39 in a CAR/M4 set up. CDNN has and I hope other American companies will make hi-cap magazines again.

Or building another 75gr HP thrower in an AR15A2 with a 1in8" Stainless and National Match Sights.

Or an SP1 retro look AR with the triangular handguards. 

Not sure. Ohio Ordnance's new FN-FNC clone has my attention these days.

-Thed

113474[/snapback]

I would like to have a 7.62x39 AR myself. Have you heard of any brand magazine that is actually reliable in these?

I saw an upper at the last gun show that I wanted with the original flat sided upper, no forward assist and the triangle hand guards. If I hadn't just bought about $300 worth of stuff I would have grabbed it. It was in perfect condition and severely light. Without the bolt it didn't weigh much more than my CAR stock. I was amazed. Any idea what the going rate for these complete uppers in nice shape are?

Chris

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I would like to have a 7.62x39 AR myself. Have you heard of any brand magazine that is actually reliable in these?

113799[/snapback]

Nope. That is part of the problem :D

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/cdnn/ar7620stmane.html

CDNN has them listed as 20rd "New Replacement Magazines" for $1499.

I truly hope Thermold starts making magazines again. They had great magazines for the AR, HK, Mini-14, FAL and others. I could only hope an AR 7.62x39 mag.

-Thed

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How come the cast lowers aren't any good? Are they weaker in design than the forged lowers or what? I'm just checking out all my options so I end up with a good rifle that won't break my bank account. Thanks.

Eric

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I would not worry to much about the cast lowers. Althougth the ideal would be the forged receiver from billet, most modern casting companies will use pressure assisted casting. Its far from using gravity molds from melted soda cans :D

The idea of the forged receiver being "better" mostly comes from the idea that:

One: casting if not done properly with molten aluminum alloy forced into a mold under pressure can have different denisites in various locations on the receiver. What complicated this is that the receiver is not technically all Aluminum.

Chemistry Data : 7075 Aluminum

Aluminum  Balance 

Chromium  0.18 - 0.28 

Copper  1.2 - 2 

Iron  0.5 max 

Magnesium  2.1 - 2.9 

Manganese  0.3 max 

Remainder Each  0.05 max 

Remainder Total  0.15 max 

Silicon  0.4 max 

Titanium  0.2 max 

Zinc  5.1 - 6.1 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Principal Design Features    The 7075 alloy is capable of high strength as developed by heat treating. It also has excellent properties at low temperatures. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Applications    Commonly used in the manufacture of aircraft and other aerospace applications not requiring the corrosion resistance of Clad 7075. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Machinability    It is best to machine this alloy in the annealed condition. Machining capability is good and oil lubricants should be used. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Forming    This alloy is comparatively strong for an aluminum alloy. As such it produces greater springback during forming operations. Forming is best done in the annealed condition and if difficulty is encountered then warming the material to 200 - 250 F will assist formability. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Welding    Resistance welding is the only preferred method of joining AL 7075 alloy. Gas welding should be avoided and use of arc welding may result in degradation of corrosion resistance. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Heat Treatment    This alloy may be solution annealed at 900 F for 2 hours at temperature, followed by a water quench. The alloy may then be given a precipitation hardening (aging) heat treatment -- see "Aging". 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Forging    The alloy may be forged in the temperature range of 900 F to 700 F. It should be solution heat treated following forging. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hot Working    Warming the material to 250 F will greatly assist formability. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Cold Working    Cold working is readily accomplished with the alloy in the soft, annealed, condition. Conventional forming methods may be used, but springback is greater for this alloy than for other of the aluminum alloys. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Annealing    The temperature for annealing AL 7075 alloy is 775 F, holding at temperature for 3 hours. Controlled cooling at 50 F per hour should then be used down to 500 F from which it can then be air cooled. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Aging    Precipitation strengthening (aging) is done at 250 F for 24 hours and air cooled for T 6. The T 73 temper requires heating to 225 F for 8 hours followed by 24 hours at 325 F and air cooling. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Tempering    Not applicable. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hardening    Hardens by precipitation heat treatment -- see "Aging". 

The tempering and heat treatment of the receivers, whether forged or cast are nearly idential.

Personally, I would not be to concerned about cast receivers, provided that the manufacturer works to at least ISO standards, and is pouring the lowers of 7075 Aluminum with a T6 temper. The cast receivers are great budget options to building a low cost AR.

-Thed

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Thanks Thed. The cast lowers sold by FAC are made by Century Arms if that makes any difference. I know some people don't like Century products but it's the cheapest one I can find so I think I will go with that one. Last I checked they were selling them for $79.95 or something close to that. It seemed prety obvious to me that they wouldn't sell anything that wasn't up to par. I'm glad there are alot of people on here that know what they're doing or else I would be toltally lost. Thanks.

Eric

Oh yea, the FAC cast lowers are investment cast also.

Edited by emr454

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