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US Army Say No More P-Mags

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Admin    40

TACOM LCMC MI 12-021, M4 / M16 Improved Magazine and the Use of Commercial Magazines

Date Created Monday, April 30, 2012 3:12 PM

Benefit/Value

Issue: TACOM has become aware of units ordering 30 rd. commercial (i.e.

polymer, etc.) magazines for their M4/M16 family of weapons. The

M4/M16 Army authorized magazines are the following: NSN 1005-00-561-7200

(improved magazine) and NSN 1005-00-921-5004 (older magazine; use until

exhaustion).

User Actions: TM 9-1005-319-10, the Additional Authorized List (AAL),

states that NSN 1005-00-921-5004 is authorized, as well as NSN

1005-00-561-7200. Units may use the older magazine NSN 1005-00-921-5004

with the green follower until exhausted. The improved magazine is available

in stock, NSN 1005-00-561-7200, and has a tan follower. The improved

magazine features an improved follower and follower spring. These new

features help to reduce the risk of magazine-related stoppages. Units are

only authorized to use the Army authorized magazines listed in the technical

manuals. Remember; "tan-is the plan, green-start to lean, black-take it

back." Magazines with the black follower are the oldest and should be turned

in to your unit supply sergeant or local supply point.

https://acc.dau.mil/...0851&lang=en-US

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ChemSoldier    33

Nothing shocking here. The army does not allow the outside purchase of items using unit guns that are available from the supply system (ie mags) for cost reasons.

To my knowledge there is no reg against using privately owned mags, though your chain of command may or may not allow you to.

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Riot    14

If it works why screw with it?

If what works? Reading that I didn't really hear "no more P-Mags" anywhere, just the usual upgrade stuff. Most magazines in circulation have been around since the 70s. You can tell by the follower. The black followers are the original mag followers and are prone to jam more easily than the green followers...now they have mags with new brown followers. What am I missing? Did the military have a contract for P-Mags that I wasn't aware of?

M4magazinechange.jpg

I'm guessing this is from the statement of "Units are only authorized to use the Army authorized magazines listed in the technical manuals" Right? They always say that crap. Technically, you're only supposed to buy your uniforms from the PX, only wear the brown underwear that they gave you in basic training and use those horrible shrinking wool socks too. You are only supposed to use military issued gear- that is because people buy the fake crap that breaks or makes them look like soup sandwich to save a few bucks. I had brought a bunch of stuff and "tested" it overseas. One of them being plastic magazines...oh and all of them failed by the way (luckily not in actual combat) which is why I don't own a single "P-Mag", just lots and lots of metal M16/M4 magazines (admittedly I own a few plastic AK mags, but they are used at a limited capacity). Mind you I can't speak for P-Mags, I just don't trust plastic M4/M16 mags because all the ones I owned broke.

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ChemSoldier    33

OK guys, units normally order magazines through the supply system using their Nation Stock Number (NSN). This comes out of a certain pot of money and can sometimes be recouped by the unit (it doesnt always come out of our budget or if it does out of a certain pot of money). PMags could be obtained by units but they had to use certain funds to do it and it was wasteful because it was overall cheaper to get the supply system mags.

I personally think the PMags are better mags but the supply system ones work just fine and uncle sugar will give you so many you dont have to worry about losing them.

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Riot    14

...the supply system ones work just fine and uncle sugar will give you so many you dont have to worry about losing them.

Sometimes this is a blessing and a curse. When you get recirculated magazines from the Vietnam war you might want your unit to fork out the dough for some new mags. I personally hand cleaned, inspected and serviced every single magazine in my platoon before we deployed. Each one I inspected was marked with tape to identify that the magazine was a "go". After cleaning them I removed all the black followers and bent springs and filed any burs in the mag bodies to ensure we were 100% before we got on the plane overseas. Not everyone in the military is as vigilant as we were about preparing. You can't just run on down to the supply shop and ask for 30 mags, slap them in your rifle and march on down to war. Easily- one in every ten magazines in our unit would have probably caused a misfeed and I still (to this day) am adamant that magazine springs do lose their tension when kept loaded for long periods of time.

Saying that a unit can't use their own allotted deployment funds to go out and buy commercial magazines is just more Army CYA garbage. "If Uncle Sam didn't issue you it, then you can't use it!" I remember getting more crap for buying out of regulation equipment to stay safe, comfortable and hydrated while deployed than a NCO did for fraternizing with a lower enlisted female or for someone being out of shape and unable to carry their basic combat load.

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Yahoshua    5

I personally think the PMags are better mags but the supply system ones work just fine and uncle sugar will give you so many you dont have to worry about losing them.

This was more what i was getting at....

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I prefer USGI mags they worked great for me. I had more problems with my M4, not magazine related.

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ChemSoldier    33

The old mags recirculating are a problem, when I find old Checkmate M9 mags I literally step on them (stomp on them) so they will have to be DXed.

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JSheaHawk    29

The old mags recirculating are a problem, when I find old Checkmate M9 mags I literally step on them (stomp on them) so they will have to be DXed.

And now you're destroying government property. Shame!

Jared

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emclean    23
And now you're destroying government property. Shame!

hes an officer, he is government property.

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JSheaHawk    29

hes an officer, he is government property.

Quite right. You should see the haircut they give him!

Jared

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Riot    14

Quite right. You should see the haircut they give him!

Jared

jim-carrey-dumb-dumber-c10102378-tm.jpg?w=282&h=350

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SBHShooter    12

...only wear the brown underwear that they gave you in basic training...

We're given whitey tighties, and that is the only authorized option for inspection purposes (yes, they can check.)

*shudder*

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I wore whatever I could get in the PX. Didn't care, usually Hanes boxer briefs. I wear them forever now.

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ChemSoldier    33

it is a commentary on us, that serious discussions of firearms components degenerate to underwear....

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Yahoshua    5

I bought loads of PMags after watching this video and hearing good reviews of it from other people ....but that was back when Pmags were a good but at $15 a pop.

[media=]

[/media]

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it is a commentary on us, that serious discussions of firearms components degenerate to underwear....

Hell yeah, let's change this thread to an underwear discussion/review!

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SBHShooter    12

it is a commentary on us, that serious discussions of firearms components degenerate to underwear....

Just commenting on the sometimes overly restrictive military guidelines on issued and/or authorized gear.

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One reason I ETS'd was because all of the BS regulations. I heard now that active duty must shave everyday even if on leave. No exceptions. That's retarded. Eventually everyone on post will have PT belts on their cars, dogs, children & everything else.

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SBHShooter    12

I heard now that active duty must shave everyday even if on leave.

Whoa, that's some bull. You should have seen me on Memorial Day, you could tell I didn't shave.

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ChemSoldier    33

That reg isnt official yet. Hopefully someone will wake up and decide this isnt a good idea.

Its bullshit, creating a moral hazard. It will be an impossible to enforce and often ignored policy that will all of a sudden rear its ugly head to be used on soldiers the chain of command doesnt like. One reason prohibition was a bad policy was that it made law breakers of most people and lessened the perceived value of following the law. Will soldiers be more likely to follow all regulations when one particular regulation is regularly and willfully ignored by most of the force? When the Chain of Command turns a blind eye to it being obeyed in most instances and ignores it themselves? Will soldiers avoid the cost savings of using on post services on the weekends because they dont want to be seen with their day and a half growth of beard?

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Riot    14

Shave while on leave? Makes me want to go to my nearest base with all my facial hair and the first time someone asks me about it, thinking I'm still in I'd give them a piece of my mind.

Something to the effect of "GO F$%# YOURSELF, SIR!"

Should have heard about the "cannot drink within 8 hours of driving" rule the 82nd enforced in 2005ish. Charged everyone with failing to obey a lawful order for just having one beer then driving home...officers were basically following soldiers from restaurants to their units.

I also love how you cannot wear any military uniforms combined with civilian attire...but then you have to wear a reflective belt everywhere you go. I never drove a motorcycle a day in my life, but forcing all soldiers to wear full sleeves and pants with a reflective belt or vest at all times?

:nono2:

So here's my last little jab at this topic about stupid military stuff. Chem can stomp on old magazines to get them DXed. If a Joe did it he'd be in serious sh*t. He would be charged for the magazine and would have to do corrective training. Double standard anyone? Let the boys keep their P-Mags...it ain't hurtin anyone.

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ChemSoldier    33

Riot, I am sure it is all those damned officers. We have nothing better to do than shave on the weekends.

NCOs never have any input on grooming standards and would be happier if we all ran around looking like Grizzly Adams...

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