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hubel458

700HE and 12GA FH

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hubel458    0
Here we kill two birds with one stone so to speak,

 

Best case sizer is the MEC Collet Super Sizer and it can double

as a case holder when we roll crimp. Much better hold than

the ones made to hold cases for crimping, that cost a lot.

Save cost of a holder, plus have best sizer around

 

mecrimp.jpg

 

Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE

in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First  laminated  thumbhole stock.

Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail

like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.

The scope rail is a piccatiny type.

 

lawtonthumb.jpg

 

lawtonhogue.jpg

 

The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil

block ahead of recoil inleting  for the longer action, drill new screw hole

Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

 

About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the

sporterizing, welding  bottom metal straight. Many think straightening

is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig

with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old

extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.

When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind

the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.

The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!

Just keep on building...Ed

 

guardlen.jpg

 

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hubel458    0
Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by

a guy in Canada.  Its straight back,  high comb

stock, handles recoil great.Neat looking work... Ed

 

brian24.jpg

 

 

About our 2.17"  585 BB  case for lever guns, pistols, etc,.

It is made from our 585 case cut back to 2.17" long.

With loaded length of about 2.8" work in lever guns, etc.

Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.

One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with

Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,

to simulate pistol  recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case

that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet. 

Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.

Or rolling block rifles and  pistols...Gonna try one  in 1887.

Got first one in one of our guys Greener GP for testing..

 

In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.

By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....

Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site. 

 

 

Mickyboob.jpg

 

Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.

On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down

and shape it so  debth of the pocket matches bottom section of

weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.

Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight

like a compact UTG sight...Ed

 

enfieldsight.jpg

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hubel458    0
Here is a picture from the back,  of a big Lawton action that

our 585HE fits in nice. Scope rail on there is tapered

for long range shooting.

 

lawton35-2.jpg

 

Here is what our wildcatter buddy is making from our 

585HE brass to see how they look and experiment with.

He is getting reamers, dies, and gun setup first for the 375.

 

 

warlord4.jpg

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hubel458    0
A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..

That is neat term , and very glad  that folks are catching the big bore fever.

 

Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized

bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.

 I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat 

bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.

 

2wgrs.jpg

 

Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys  put in the MPI stock..

 

biebs.jpg

 

Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF

 

brian24-2.jpg

 

 

On straight sided cases  like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander

die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always

felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight

roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the

bullet or slug, shortens case life.

 

So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of

of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small 

amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads, 

with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less

work that has to be done in the press ... Ed

 

mouthex.jpg

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hubel458    0
Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding

a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.

This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps.

 

shrifle.jpg

 

 

Here is  video by Corlanes Sporting,  Dawson Creek, BC, CAN. 

Known as,  Rocky Mtn Rifles,  video on Youtube of them testing our

585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are

shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

 


 

 Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy,

the second they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier .

AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE.

Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for  585HE.. 

 

lawton35.jpg

 

 

Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked  into it,

chambered for our 585 BB  2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle

with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to

put case in leverguns,  autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed

 

rossi585bb.jpg

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hubel458    0
The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest,  that we

we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked

in them like .585" bore for 585HE  and  24ga FH.. One that is close

to perfect that we have, is couple Magtechs we have in 24ga FH..

 

 Well the guys have  found one that is super strong lockup and  looks 

real nice. And has the good quality look. It comeswith  12ga light shot barrel, 

soon  be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH,  the little brother of the 585HE.

 

Told company if they did them NEF Ultra style, rifled, heavy, 12ga slug barrel,

for the shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.

 

perfect12.jpg

 

 

Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that  Bret and Darrel in Minn

set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job. It is in a Hogue, recoil

reducing, rubber coated, Compstock.Great job they did.. Ed

 

camo-en.jpg

 

Here is picture from the rear of the Enfield we mounted the short Weaver

rail piece on. It is mounted in the sight pocket that the actions have;

Can hold scope ring or a rear peep sight like UTG makes.. Ed

 

enbackwea.jpg

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hubel458    0

There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
locking on plastic bases securely on slugs.
Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.

Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.

http://www.gunownerstv.com/585bb.jpg


Here  is another view of  the great camo job on the 
585HE Enfield,  a guy did,  a top view.  Ed

http://www.gunownerstv.com/camo-en2.jpg
 

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hubel458    0


Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver

wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.

Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga  one BPI has.


http://www.gunownerstv.com/helixseal.jpg[/IMG]  

Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading, 

by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a 

Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported 

the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us,  through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB. 


http://www.gunownerstv.com/spooksar.jpg[/IMG]  

That action similar to  Lawton we had and neighbor got,  that won the King Of The

2 Mile shoot at Whittington,  with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,

 from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right. 

He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.


http://www.gunownerstv.com/375lethal.jpg[/IMG

Here is picture of a case a Trex owner made using our 585 brass, by putting

a piece of 11/16 tubing ,cut a piece 2/10 of an inch long with a tube cutter chamfered 

the cut side a bit  and tapped it on  the case down to the belt with the brass pipe 

and fireformed  it in the T Rex chamber.......Made a  perfect fitting case.  

Cut  our brass to 3" to fit shorter trex specs. He was out of brass

and couldn't find more, so he invented his own. And our rim was  big

enough so his extractor still worked ok....His original Trex case base is  .685"

and our rim and belt on first case run, is .655" diameter, and base ahead

of the belt on unfired cases  .631" and the brass sleave pushed up tight to the 

belt just takes up that little difference. Ed. 


http://www.gunownerstv.com/herex.jpg[/IMG]

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hubel458    0


We have heard that  fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, is working

with  Bertram in making a run of the full length  12ga From Hell cases.

 Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims. 

Any wanting to get some, and get in on the run,  contact Bertram

at the email -----    b.bertram1@bigpond.com    ...... 

Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal.......

 .375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets. 

Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

 Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms

 muzzle brake. Lawton  Action. Lethal Precision  his own  gunsmith  shop,  will make

these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..


Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target, 

a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.

The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid was superb, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps). 

http://www.gunownerstv.com/mitch3.jpg[/IMG


Here is  585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy  Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

The  butts of these can easily be weighted.  Couple guys doing them.......  Ed


http://www.gunownerstv.com/enchoate.jpg[/IMG

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hubel458    0

Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan 

Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.

http://www.gunownerstv.com/12gavale.jpg[/IMG]


Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

for our case as it came from production line,.

http://www.gunownerstv.com/585bbstamp.jpg[/IMG]


 I like Hogue stocks,  but they aren't made for singleshots.

We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and  585HE.

Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

a Hogue  1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and 

handles recoil,easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,


http://www.gunownerstv.com/buttnef.jpg[/IMG]


Here is picture of  585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat

375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed


http://www.gunownerstv.com/law585bolt.jpg[/IMG]

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Just got this gun done on an Enfield Action.
It right now has barrel on it for my 700HE 3.25"
cartridge. Gun also would work for the 12GA From
Hell. I reamed out action like what was done one Mausers
years ago to make 12ga bolt action shotguns, only I
improved process by adding two rear bolt locking
lugs, a heavy stock and barrel to take recoil. 
We are doing an 8GA FH on an Enfield.
Second picture is the Savage 210 that I have the
12GA FH in.Ed

 

regards

angela belly provide Dissertation help uk.

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hubel458    0

Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.


Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published  in Oct, now out for sale,

http://www.gunownerstv.com/cotw585.jpg[/IMG]


We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made  by necking down our 585 HE.
The others couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different 
shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the others...Got a bunch
guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. The 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for  375 necked from our case,

Here's how, size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed 
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
 pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.

I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
 held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.

So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff  same thread,
 reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

After priming, loading in the powder charge, we  carefully start(boat tail makes it easy) 
 bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
 perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating 
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice 
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special  dies. 
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

OVER 900 375HE  cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another 
 bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more. 

All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed


boattailseat.jpg

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hubel458    0

Here is picture of  one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in

Africa with  our 24ga FH he did on a NEF,  in 2nd picture


http://www.gunownerstv.com/brianbuff.jpg[/IMG]


http://www.gunownerstv.com/briangun.jpg[/IMG]


Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that

are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind

from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600  on

another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere, 

We  also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with

lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700, 

Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed

to get that, and have info where to get powders.  Reamer prints are

at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed

http://www.gunownerstv.com/necking375.jpg[/IMG]

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hubel458    0

Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing  585 HE

they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from

ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel  would be

 over  2900,  14000 ft lbs with full load..

585blast.jpg 

Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.

Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is  400gr bullet.

375hecases.jpg 


Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.

So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.

testgun.jpg 


Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die, 

test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs. 

When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys

Soon will have  408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,

Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for

our  bigger case .Ed

416he.jpg 

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hubel458    0

Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for  the expanding slug.

http://www.gunownerstv.com/bbrake.jpg[/IMG]


Here is the  before and after of  375 HE cases    
necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed

http://www.gunownerstv.com/beforehydroafter.jpg[/IMG]


Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over  280 gr ball powder under bullet. The
 3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit. 

http://www.gunownerstv.com/416hsm.jpg[/IMG]

Here is picture of  the 416 HSM fireformed once, 
next to bmg case we make it from and as we 
improve wildcatting process next few weeks 
some specs may make small changes, now from 
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..


http://www.gunownerstv.com/hsmbmg.jpg[/IMG]


Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, , 
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes,
PM or email. ph 989-644-5228.. 

Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32",  belt diameter  ,655",  base dia  .635" , 
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed

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hubel458    0


 

Here is picture of  the 416 HSM fireformed once, 
next to bmg case we make it from and as we 
improve wildcatting process next few weeks 
some specs may make small changes, now from 
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..


http://www.gunownerstv.com/hsmbmg.jpg

 

 

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hubel458    0

Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for  28ga and
410 ga and  32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get  Magtech brass cases or have
 RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..

http://www.gunownerstv.com/585mosin2.jpg[/IMG]

Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
enough thickness in the sides to handle  high pressure,
in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting 
work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
We have lots of 585s,  375HEs,  416 HEs,  408 HEs.....
And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.

http://www.gunownerstv.com/hsmsect.jpg[/IMG]

Here's comparison of  416 target cases, 1st  416 HE,  have whole bunch. 
Second is model of what I'd have made  on  medium machine, if I could,  
the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of  230gr.. 
Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
cases, And if  had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 .. 

http://www.gunownerstv.com/416heexp.jpg[/IMG]


Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
 Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in  
375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very  similiar to 375HE )...
 It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide. 

Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
 weekend 10-13th  at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed

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hubel458    0

The 12ga FH case  now is in the new COTW book on
last  page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that   case....


The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..

http://www.gunownerstv.com/416heexp.jpg[/IMG]


More info out now;  short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case
 proportions, too sharp of shoulders, too fast of powders...........
 and  debth of  the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture  below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.

http://www.gunownerstv.com/416inout.jpg[/IMG]
 

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hubel458    0

Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed

http://www.gunownerstv.com/416heprint.jpg[/IMG]


Here is picture of 375 HE left,  416 HE next,  416 HSM right..

http://www.gunownerstv.com/pat1.jpg[/IMG]


Here, tentative specs,  416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,

http://www.gunownerstv.com/416hsmpic.jpg[/IMG]

A  375  HE,  with Lawton action, bunch being done with those .....

http://www.gunownerstv.com/lawton375.jpg[/IMG]
 

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hubel458    0

Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed

http://www.gunownerstv.com/416heprint.jpg[/IMG]


Here is picture of 375 HE left,  416 HE next,  416 HSM right..

http://www.gunownerstv.com/pat1.jpg[/IMG]


Here, tentative specs,  416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,

http://www.gunownerstv.com/416hsmpic.jpg[/IMG]

A  375  HE,  with Lawton action, bunch being done with those .....

http://www.gunownerstv.com/lawton375.jpg[/IMG]
 

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hubel458    0

A 585 HE ...shot  with moderate heavy load......

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/20404363_470558053312276_3772630570509533184_n.mp4


Here is a 375 HE target gun  set up, by Asteroid Precision...

http://www.gunownerstv.com/375hehotrod.jpg[/IMG]


Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,

bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's  just getting started

and is checking on  better powder, Ed..

https://www.facebook.com/AsteroidPrecision/videos/298031133934093/?fref=gs&dti=321360231548869&hc_location=group
 

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